Fanboy:
It pretty much goes without saying that Cassies all across the world want TVXQ to return as the 5-member boy band that they have known to grow and love. Unfortunately, fans are feeling the pressure to choose sides while each side is quick to point to fingers at who's at fault here. "JYJ are traitors for leaving the company that made them who they are." "HoMin are traitors for not joining their fellow members in suing SM." Blah blah blah...
Fast forward to now, and we have witnessed JYJ suffer setback after setback of not being able to make it post-SM. It seems that these guys just can't seem to catch a break. JYJ can't perform on Korean television. JYJ are ineligible to be on various charts such as Oricon. JYJ's reality show gets cancelled before it even airs. It is literally issue after issue that seems to prevent the trio from even succeeding.
Once again, JYJ fans are pointing fingers at SM. Yes, SM has interfered in several of these incidents, but it has not been proven that they have been involved in every setback for JYJ. While at the same time, some JYJ fans are turning their backs against HoMin, because they are associated with the company that is "set out to destroy JYJ".
I don't consider myself a Cassie (mostly because it sounds too feminine...) so I'm not as emotionally invested in this issue as other fans. But let me just say that I feel terrible for these guys. A part of me is kind of hoping that it would make JYJ just simply surrender and go back to SM to return at the 5-member TVXQ. I strongly believe that if TVXQ were to make a comeback this year as the quintet, their success would far exceed HoMin's and JYJ's success combined.
On another note, I absolutely hate that fans are against SM's artists. Feel free to hate the company, but there is no need to bash the artists of the company (including HoMin). Honestly, fans really shouldn't be getting involved at all. This is really JYJ's, SM's, and HoMin's matter to deal with. We, as fans, do NOT know the whole story. We only know what has been stated as "he said, she said."
I just hope that this unfortunate firestorm of controversy gets resolved soon. Don't we all want closure now?
I'm still going to support both HoMin and JYJ. I love both artists. I'll continue hoping that they return as 5 one day, because after all, I'm still waiting to see them perform "Break Out" live. Just once, please! Until then, I shall continue making old TVXQ compilations and relive the memory of the quintet that commanded the stage as 5!
Fangirl:
Our readers can now see one of the fundamental differences of opinion between Fanboy and myself: Fanboy likes SM and I despise SM.
As a passionate Cassie, it was some time before I was able to form any sort of reply to this post beyond "KEYBOARDSMASH!@&#$!!!!!" After taking some time to compose myself, here is the most coherent response I could come up with:
KEYBOARDSMASH!@&#$!!!!!
Nah, just kidding. But it really did take me a long time to corral my emotions into any kind of coherent thought.
Fanboy believes that fans should not interfere and should allow SM, HoMin, and JYJ to work out the issue on their own. I disagree. I think SM is a big bully and JYJ could use all the help they can get.
I further disagree with Fanboy's statement that "we have witnessed JYJ suffer setback after setback of not being able to make it post-SM." I would like to remind him that despite opposition, the JYJ boys have been fantastically successful in their individual activities, toured Asia and the US, sold a respectable number of "The Beginning" albums and released another successful album that was completely self-composed. And they remain among the highest paid celebrities in Korea. Imagine what they might have been able to do if they had been able promote their activities as well?
However, I agree with Fanboy that while fans may feel free to hate SM the company, fans should not be hating on SM's artists. While I personally like to envision the CEO of SM Entertainment as a bitter old man (who snacks on puppies for lunch and polishes his devil horns in his free time), I believe the artists of SM are honestly charming and talented people. If anything, they are also vicitims of the situation.
I too look forward to that day when all five members may stand on one stage again. Until then, I'll do what all Cassie do - always keep the faith!
What do you think of the JYJ controversy?
It pretty much goes without saying that Cassies all across the world want TVXQ to return as the 5-member boy band that they have known to grow and love. Unfortunately, fans are feeling the pressure to choose sides while each side is quick to point to fingers at who's at fault here. "JYJ are traitors for leaving the company that made them who they are." "HoMin are traitors for not joining their fellow members in suing SM." Blah blah blah...
Fast forward to now, and we have witnessed JYJ suffer setback after setback of not being able to make it post-SM. It seems that these guys just can't seem to catch a break. JYJ can't perform on Korean television. JYJ are ineligible to be on various charts such as Oricon. JYJ's reality show gets cancelled before it even airs. It is literally issue after issue that seems to prevent the trio from even succeeding.
Once again, JYJ fans are pointing fingers at SM. Yes, SM has interfered in several of these incidents, but it has not been proven that they have been involved in every setback for JYJ. While at the same time, some JYJ fans are turning their backs against HoMin, because they are associated with the company that is "set out to destroy JYJ".
I don't consider myself a Cassie (mostly because it sounds too feminine...) so I'm not as emotionally invested in this issue as other fans. But let me just say that I feel terrible for these guys. A part of me is kind of hoping that it would make JYJ just simply surrender and go back to SM to return at the 5-member TVXQ. I strongly believe that if TVXQ were to make a comeback this year as the quintet, their success would far exceed HoMin's and JYJ's success combined.
On another note, I absolutely hate that fans are against SM's artists. Feel free to hate the company, but there is no need to bash the artists of the company (including HoMin). Honestly, fans really shouldn't be getting involved at all. This is really JYJ's, SM's, and HoMin's matter to deal with. We, as fans, do NOT know the whole story. We only know what has been stated as "he said, she said."
I just hope that this unfortunate firestorm of controversy gets resolved soon. Don't we all want closure now?
I'm still going to support both HoMin and JYJ. I love both artists. I'll continue hoping that they return as 5 one day, because after all, I'm still waiting to see them perform "Break Out" live. Just once, please! Until then, I shall continue making old TVXQ compilations and relive the memory of the quintet that commanded the stage as 5!
Fangirl:
Our readers can now see one of the fundamental differences of opinion between Fanboy and myself: Fanboy likes SM and I despise SM.
As a passionate Cassie, it was some time before I was able to form any sort of reply to this post beyond "KEYBOARDSMASH!@&#$!!!!!" After taking some time to compose myself, here is the most coherent response I could come up with:
KEYBOARDSMASH!@&#$!!!!!
Nah, just kidding. But it really did take me a long time to corral my emotions into any kind of coherent thought.
Fanboy believes that fans should not interfere and should allow SM, HoMin, and JYJ to work out the issue on their own. I disagree. I think SM is a big bully and JYJ could use all the help they can get.
I further disagree with Fanboy's statement that "we have witnessed JYJ suffer setback after setback of not being able to make it post-SM." I would like to remind him that despite opposition, the JYJ boys have been fantastically successful in their individual activities, toured Asia and the US, sold a respectable number of "The Beginning" albums and released another successful album that was completely self-composed. And they remain among the highest paid celebrities in Korea. Imagine what they might have been able to do if they had been able promote their activities as well?
However, I agree with Fanboy that while fans may feel free to hate SM the company, fans should not be hating on SM's artists. While I personally like to envision the CEO of SM Entertainment as a bitter old man (who snacks on puppies for lunch and polishes his devil horns in his free time), I believe the artists of SM are honestly charming and talented people. If anything, they are also vicitims of the situation.
I too look forward to that day when all five members may stand on one stage again. Until then, I'll do what all Cassie do - always keep the faith!
What do you think of the JYJ controversy?
This is a super complex issue, lots of people have their thoughts on it, and let's be honest: there really isn't a right or wrong view to take on it. As fanboy said, we DON'T know all the intricate behind the scenes details and happenings that led up to the lawsuit. However, I feel that it's impossible to say that fans should stay out of this. The way Korean fandoms are structured and tightly bonded to the idols themselves, that's just not going to happen.
I DO find it unfair to criticize and bash SM's other artists for defending SM/Homin and criticizing JYJ. They're SM's artists, after all. If they took any issue with SM, they would have left SM. While under SM, you can't possibly expect them to go against SM. Not gonna happen.
I'm not a Cassie and I have not followed DBSK and this case since the very beginning. I know some of my views on this issue wouldn't float well with those who ARE devoted. But that's to be expected, my perspective is naturally different from those who are deep inside the fandom. I only ask that Cassies can respect the fact that other people can have their legitimate opinions on this issue too.
Fanboy & Fangirl both have their points, & I will respect that.
Yes, JYJ has suffered alot, but true, they've also done well on their own individual activities with their "The Beginning" album. Even though they cannot be on Korean tv, are ineligible to be on Hanteo / Oricon charts, etc., they've done well otherwise.
Also, it's not just SME to blame. Sometimes it was JYJ's fault (for few events that I'm not aware of). Still, taking sides just doesn't seem right to me.
I haven't been a Cassie for that long; I only got into them just last year.
The best advice, though, for ALL Cassies are to just let it be. Let SME, JYJ, and HoMin handle the issue, because it only involves them, not us. No matter how much we love one, we just have to keep the faith.
I’m a JYJ Fan who support TVXQAct1. And l DO HATE SM, so much. I just wish I could punch tht CEO squarely on his face, and kick his shin and say “F*CK YOU, Thanks for making me cry and causing so much pain to many PEOPLE!”. I real do.
As a fan of JYJ I don’t hate any of the SM artist, I mean what did they ever do to me and no I don’t hate HoMin. And most of them are talented some of the can’t sing BUT hey they got the moves.
I wished that SM would have let them out gracefully which would let them be on the good light. But no, they had to BLOCKED JYJ and make their career impossible in Korea. And I never ever want JYJ back into that company. I don’t like it when people go, “JYJ should go back to SM and just reunite with HoMin and everything would be fine.” Yeah no, that just doesn’t work with me.
My wish is that JYJ well me able to be on TV, sing on the music shows like Mnet etc. and have activities and Japan (the Avex crap is a whole new story, tht company burns me to). And I know that we don’t know the whole story BUT I choose to believe in JYJ and I do WHOLEHEARTEDLY. And WHEN (JYJ and HoMin) they reunite, I say WHEN because I know it that they well be together one day singing on the stage. I would support them.
But for now I only its JYJ bby!
Well.. There is nothing much I can say about it. Since I already gave up on being a Cassie thanks to the fandom itself. (I can't stand the bashing anymore. I feel bad as a fan that I don't stick with the boys anymore) All I have to say is that I totally agree with the fanboy. At the beginning of the whole issue I used to say "screw SM Entertainment. Go down. Let our boys alone" But after some time I started to ask myself "If SM Entertainment is so bad.. Why are most of the Idols staying there? Love the entertainment. Say that Lee SooMan is like a father." It was Super Juniors Heechul who once said "There are many problems with our entertainment. But we can overcome these problems." - It's not like I dance thinkin' "SM is the best!" I just think... They are not THIS bad like everyone say.
Yeah... I could write some 1000 words more. But I think I should stop here.
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts.
I'm sorry if it seemed like I was implying that only Cassies can have an opinion about this issue, and that other's opinions are irrelevant. If anything, I think my emotions are a handicap in looking at the issue reasonably.
Sica brings up a good point - if SM is really so terrible, why do so many SM artists stay and support the company? I think it may have to do with the level of freedom these artists are comfortable with. For JYJ, I suspect they need more freedom and flexibility in their lives to be happy. And perhaps these other artists are content with life at SM.
That's probably not the whole thing - it's a very complex issue - but I think it has something to do with it.
@xXMzSmilesXx
I'm sure that when JYJ left, they were aware that they'd face oppression by SM. As powerful as SM is in the industry, that was unavoidable. But they chose to leave anyway. Now it's up to the courts to enforce what they ruled and fine SM every time they try to do anything to inhibit JYJ.
@Sica
Why do so many artists stay with SM? Some reasons I can think of:
1. They actually want to leave, but can't pay the fine for breach of contract.
2. They want to sue, but would rather stay than deal with the consequences of suing, like what JYJ is going through.
3. They have no problem whatsoever with their contracts or SM.
4. Attachment to their groups and fans.
As far as SM being like a 'father' to its artists, it's almost like brainwashing to me. If SM really treated them like its own children, there wouldn't have been so many cases of artists leaving at the end of contracts or suing. In comparison, do we see anyone suing to leave JYP or YG? KARA vs. DSP is the only other major case I know of. I don't like SM, but I don't hate them either. Mainly I just mistrust them.
Well I think.. We can't say it's for every idol the same. We have now JYJ and some Members of H.O.T who leaves SM and Hangeng from Super Junior.
1. H.O.T is now back on good terms with SME (This is the reason why I think it can't be THAT bad.)
2. Eventhough Hangeng left SM and won the lawsuit He never says really bad things about SM. The chinese reporters make some stuff up and Hangeng is all like 'They weren't that bad. Without them I wouldn't stand here. I am thankful.'
I think we can compare it with something like a broken leg. There are people who have broken legs and still go through the world with just a slight pain and there are people who are literally going to die because of the pain.
And of cause no one can pay the fine that SM wants when you end the contract. But think that way: If EVERYONE there is unhappy then everyone could join forces and go out there. As if SM had a chance then to say 'It's not our fault.'
Well I support SHINee and they are under SM Entertainment too. That is the reason why I still don't think SM is heaven on earth. It breaks my heart that Onew fainted twice due to his too busy schedule.
Leeteuk said a few days ago he really loves SM. And I believe it.
The only thing I am trying to say is that we can't say 'SM is a bad Entertainment' since we have enough examples which shows the opposite.
FOr the JYJ case... I honestly think there were just so many problem with the communcation. May be with the Company and within the members.
I am not a cassie anymore and I am not the biggest fan in the world anymore but I still love them. But sometime I think 'Maybe JYJ shouldn't put salt into the wound' But yeah. Most of the time I am afraid to say this. This fandom can really be scary and don't allow to say your own opinion. And everyone wants that you decide which side you take.
Why? Why can't we just support all 5 of them? All 5 of them goin' still through a hard time and there is no 'But JYJ can't get on broadcast so they need more support.' No one sees the fake smile on Yunhos face?
I am sorry I am drifting away. Since it's been a long time I discussed this problem with anyone I have a lot in my head.
@kaorupanda
Yeah I agree with you. They knew what was coming. And I never liked SM ever. And I don't like the 'father' thing as well, I also feel its brainwashing.
@ Sica Uhh SM is the biggest entertainment company in Korea. Outta the three biggies their the biggest. JYJ filing a lawsuit against that company was pretty much CAREER SUICIDE. But they did it because they rather become farmers than work under a company who doesnt listen to their thoughts and don't treat them like their normal human beings.
It really sad that some Cassies are dropping out of the fandom, I as a JYJ Fan seriously admire them. And not everyone wants other people to decide to choose side. There are many people I know that are Cassies and who are happily supporting both the boys.
___________________________________
Well this is my opinion and I respect you guys opinion as well. ^^
Thank you all for your thoughts. This is very enlightening to see what others think inside and outside the fandom.
I think another thing to consider is the culture over in their country is very different than say America. It's really all about honor and respect over there. For someone like SM, who has poured a lot of money into building these stars to who they are today, some members wouldn't even think about leaving the company because that is a dishonor to the "father" and very betraying.
What we think is cruel and unusual punishment might just be the norm over there as well. I know Japanese workers have high stress levels and so many from Korea and Japan commit suicide because of their busy and stressful lives. Not just the idols, many work themselves to death over there.
It's strange to think how the entire entertainment industry is built over there, and seeing how powerful the record labels are, and how much they can influence the public.
I agree, as I watch the fandoms rip apart, it's really unfortunate. Why must there be sides chosen? Not to mention that fandom wars happen when something goes wrong. Remember when there was that rumor that SNSD was supposedly going to testify in the trial. Cassies and Sones ruthlessly attacked each other.
How about the most recent example of Cassies attacking Shawols because SHINee and the new TVXQ did the unthinkable and performed "Balloons" together. I saw so many comments where Shawols exclaimed, "Stop it, Cassies! Leave SHINee alone." Talk about embarrassing.
All in all, I think the entertainment industry needs to improve their business model. And fans need to listen to others' opinions about these issues. Just because they might differ with you, doesn't mean they're wrong. Open your mind and don't let these deep emotions cloud your judgement. Go in with a clear mind and think about the points given sensibly.
@xXMzSmilesXx
Right. I remember these words too.
But then again... They had 800.000 fans and I think it's kind of clear that they stick with their bias and since Junsu and Yoochun were the most loved ones... I really ask myself if they thought 'We won't be able to perform again.'
Don't get me wrong. Jaejoong and Yunho are my bias. (Thats why I tried to understand both sides) I saw their tears. I see that Jaejoong is still suffering. And I believe that they went because they were suffering. But.. Just because they aren't anymore with SM Entertainment doesn't mean their new entertainment is god. They have their stratagies too. So what if they made them say this. It's not like I say they are liars. It's just.. I am old enough to know that in this harsh music industry you can't just say and do what you want. You can only say things that goes with the strategie and the concept.
And maybe I am a little overreacting too but don't you think C-JeS would be the same if it was one of the leading entertainments? The problem is when the entertainments get bigger they get mor attention and have the more popular bands. Everyone is waiting for them to make a mistake.
And after the JYJ thing everyone is watching SM more and more. I just think about the whole Jonghyun is dating Shin SeKyung thing. Everyone is/was like 'Oh my god SM is forcing him to do that. He needs to cover up for Jessica'. There is no reason to say something like this.
And since the lawsuit isn't over and nothing is decided (well the main issue not) we can't say SM is bad. Who decides this? We have equal strong sides. One side say SM is bad and the other say SM is like a family. It's just that I can't understand why everyone is blaming SM entertainment without any real evidence. If you say it's enough evidence that JYJ left. Then it's enough evidence for the opposite that Super Junior extended their contract last year.
Hope everyone gets the point. Sorry for the bad english~ It's already too late in germany.
@DareDB
I totally agree with the fandom thing. I mean.. I don't know if anyone knows. But this month or next month SM will debut a new Boygroup. Cassiopeia, ELFs and ShaWols are already bashing them to hell!
1. Elfs: The rumor is that there around 11-13 members. ELFs are goin' crazy over this.
2. Cassiopeia: They are rumored to be the next DBSK. (Just one idiot made this up) Cassiopeia are already saying that they are goin' to boycott them.
3. ShaWol: The new band is goin' to take SHINees place and since SHINee is till now not on the highest place they could be they say the new band is goin' to ruin SHINee. Shawols are goin' to boycott them too
And there are already rumors that one of the members said they are goin' to be better then anyone. And they were yawning and were annoyed while they watched a SHINee performance.
I think this shows clearly that the Fandom at the moment is TOO much!
Cassiopeia and ShaWols are hating each other as if there is no tomorrow. And when I just read 'SHINee is goin' to perform Balloons with TVXQ' I was all like 'Here the bashing goes again' And it was like that.
K-Pop and listening too music is supposed to be fun.. but lately it turn to a war.
I wasn't going to read about this issue since I have seen lots of ridiculous reasoning that comes from some nonsense fangirls/fanboys. (other than DareDB and fanfirl of course^^)
But this post is amazing. ^^ From the post itself to Sica comments/analyzings, you guys earn my deepest respect.
Like you @sica, I'm not DBSK's fan. (why are being referred as TVXQ more than DBSK? Isn't their Korean group name is DBSK?) I joined Kpop after their lawsuit so I haven't listened to any of their songs. I was pretty much not care about this whole issue at all but since all my bias are under SME, I can't help but notice the lawsuit.
At first, I really dislike the term "slave contract" that apparently only appear after the JYJ lawsuit. Later on, I feel like dislike people who are suing their company for some rubbish "non-fair" contract. (Yes, KARA has disbanded from my eyes and I won't pay even a tiny amount of my attention to them any more) I am in no way affiliated with those companies. Heck, I am not even living in Korea but why I am feeling like taking side with those companies.
I don't know about you but as an Asian myself, I know how the systems in Asian work. Especially with the entertainment, there are things that can't be spoken or silent rules that every one know. Big companies have their positions so they of course have more advantages. IF you can even READ your own contract before signing, why not hiring a lawyer? I bet JYJ was too happy to get a chance to debut under SM to even think about reading the contract.
The contract was too long. WHAT? Idols only have a short time to make their names, what is wrong with having a long term contract? If you don't like it, don't sign it then. See if you can make it big on your own.
About exploitation, I mean WHAT again? Company is not a shelter where they provide everything for you for no PROFIT. Company is there to make money. They are not charity where everyone is volunteering to work. Have you ever worked under any boss that doesn't demand you to work more?
"Not just the idols, many work themselves to death over there." => this is true every where. I can't agree with you more.
and here I am with more, (I have to much free time for myself I guess)
"I think another thing to consider is the culture over in their country is very different than say America. It's really all about honor and respect over there. For someone like SM, who has poured a lot of money into building these stars to who they are today, some members wouldn't even think about leaving the company because that is a dishonor to the "father" and very betraying. " => This is a win paragraph. It's exactly what I have been thinking. No matter what, when JYJ left the 2 members behind they already betrayed their own family members. Is this the reason why YH was harsh to CM in the beginning like he said in "Come to play" or was it "Strong heart"?
I am really disappointed in Cassie when I see majority of them are supporting JYJ only. "No one sees the fake smile on Yunhos face?" => you are my new idol Sica. ^^ I don't care what happens, HoMin is now promoting under the na,e DBSK, if the so-called-fans still consider themselves Cassie, they should support HoMin also. What's with the sloppy sale? Isn't this some kinds of damaging DBSK name also. Imagine when DBSK(HoMin) comes back with the repackage album and still lose to Big Bang. >_<
I don't understand why some can blindly blame on a company/agency for doing their jobs. Will you call Apple evil company when they drive FOXCOM employees to work like deathly crazy? Hello, 36 hours shift is not enough to make your Iphone or Ipad.
"I really ask myself if they thought 'We won't be able to perform again.'" => I am sorry if I seem to quote too much here, but this is another win paragraph. I have been repeating myself but I really really can't agree with you more. They thought they couldn't perform any more but isn't JYJ the one that had been promoting like crazy? Until the beginning of this year that HoMin came back with their own album, HoMin only performed a little bit in SMTown and compare to who has been having many solo concerts in Japan, Korea and even USA. JYJ merchandise is every where when there is nothing about HoMin. Turn out the one who stayed is truly the one that is being boycotted. HoMin is the one who suffered the most and cannot perform when JYJ is the one who said all that crap and now is everywhere. The lawsuit isn't done yet but how many concerts they had, how many CD/DVD/music whatever note they had...?
And about Onew's fainted situation, I'm an MVP, don't get me wrong but I do think it's no one 's fault. Onew is the one who accepts all the activities. I don't think SM can force him to take up all that. I know he is a hard working person so he tries to do everything. (Musical, fan-meeting, MC on Music Core, or on some one's else birthday, CFs...) I can only pray that he will be succeed in everything he does cuz he has put tons of effort in and I don't want it goes to waste. It hurts me to know he isn't well but who can take care of your body better than yourself. You can't seriously blame another person for your own health and I think and believe Onew is smart enough to stand up for himself when he feels like.
I'm so sorry my comment isn't insightful and kinda like going off topic most the time. My idea isn't clear to grasp either so anyone who has to read this would be so confused. I think I should apologize in advance.
There is no family in bussiness. So i dont believe that SM is like family.
Not that i hate SM but this what i always think when SM said family.
Right or wrong. JYJ had their right to better living. So i cant blame them. HOMIN too. They had the right to stay if they want. They just worker right.
For example. You and your friend apply on for job and you two goin in. Later you fond out that you disatisfied with salary you get but your friend didnt. You get out to find another job but your friend stayed.
Why they sign contract? I think becoz they still young at that moment. The oldest jj is only 18 years. They even not gaduate from high school yet. And i heard the witness when they signed contract is the bodyguard SM have. So no matter how smart they are. They are still too young to understand law.
Later. Years pass and they learn that their contract is much longer than other. Twice i think.